00:00:18:00 - 00:00:43:22 Jason Welcome to another episode of Frame Forward. Today I'm interviewing Curtis LaBelle. He is a Red Deer based singer, songwriter, musician. All the fun, cool stuff. And we're going to talk about how musicians are using film and video and as part of their whole ecosystem moving into the future. So join us as we move one frame forward into music and film. 00:00:56:19 - 00:01:04:01 Jason So I'm here with Curtis Labelle. Tell me, Curtis, tell us a little bit about yourself. Who you are, where you come from and what you're doing? 00:01:04:17 - 00:01:48:08 Curtis Curtis LaBelle. And I'm from Red Deer, Alberta and Sylvan Lake in that area. And I've been a singer songwriter for about three and a half, four years, a musician for almost 40 years, but doing my own thing for this last little bit. And it's great to have this conversation, because the evolution of my art form is constantly needing the right medium to advertise indie artists, especially like myself and others out there, and keeping up with what is the next most relevant and way of expressing who I am as an artist, my music. How do I market myself? and all of that. 00:01:48:08 - 00:02:16:16 Curtis And it's a challenge to keep up on top of all of that. But there are the little pieces that work for me and some of the avenues and mediums that I use are film. As an artist, I'm not really a filmmaker. And so as COVID came in and swapped out, all of the opportunity to do live music, we've now switched everything online. 00:02:16:16 - 00:02:57:08 Curtis And so I have noticed an increase in camera companies and sound companies starting to make user friendly pieces of hardware for those artists that are not very capable of using a huge and I don't know, whatever you call those cameras, big Cannon cameras and all those things, the Hollywood style stuff and how to utilize your phone. So that's something that we have in our pocket and how to utilize the phone to capture the specific parts of the content, how to edit that content and then what platforms are you releasing that content on? 00:02:57:08 - 00:03:11:10 Curtis And then how are you continuing to use that content over and over again and not just putting it out? So it's been a bit of a challenge over the last two years having to learn how to do that, but I think I've been doing it. 00:03:11:19 - 00:03:24:16 Jason Looking to the past even before you really stepped right into this. How did artists promote themselves in the Old World, let's say records? And, you know, let's go back 40 years and see. 00:03:25:10 - 00:03:51:21 Curtis That's the dichotomy I struggle with because I may be middle aged according to what statistics say, but I'm very much old school and I'm not the when I say old school, it is that traditional way. You're right. You put out an album and then you go tour and you fill seats to sell that album, your merchandise out in the lobby, wherever, which still pretty much is a way of doing it. 00:03:52:23 - 00:04:19:16 Curtis But everything is online. So I struggled because I want to do the old school. I want to make that album, I want to do the concert in promote it that way and that sort of thing. But as indie artists, we aren't putting out albums. It's the single world. And so we have we put out a single and then you have to like I learned to adapt on how to market it, especially now that everything is online. 00:04:20:04 - 00:04:42:12 Curtis So live streaming was a big thing that was that opened up and every artist was pretty much doing it. But to market now, that live stream. Yes. So I personally took classes, I went and did online classes, and I learned from the people that I've worked with in the industry and that sort of thing and having my phone in my hand all the time and making mistakes. 00:04:42:18 - 00:05:02:12 Curtis So the biggest thing that I learned from myself was making the mistake, doing it, looking at it, and then looking at the analytics of what I've put out. So that's another thing that that I find that artists that I've worked with in the industry tend to forget. Like I say, we've created something, we've put it out, and now we've just left it. 00:05:02:20 - 00:05:28:03 Curtis But how do I make myself better at learning how to use a camera and capture that right angle of my hands playing? So it's not just me putting it up and letting it sit there. What other angles can I do to help sell my craft? So the song, but people want to see the size of my people are obsessed at how Elton John is able to play the piano with such short stubby fingers. 00:05:28:17 - 00:05:29:00 Jason Right. 00:05:29:00 - 00:05:48:11 Curtis I've heard that many times over. I've watched the man perform myself, and his fingers are probably maybe two inches long. They're short and he does wonderful that's cool. People want to know your why. People want to know all of that as an artist. So what is the right angle of getting that quick run in a song that you've created? 00:05:48:21 - 00:06:15:19 Curtis What is the the down angle? What is selling more than just the song, the art? What am I wearing? All of that. So attempting to do that with a phone, creating a new process. And then the idea I've learned is not to put that out immediately, find somebody in the industry, look at it, get some opinions, go back and see what you can do to improve on it. 00:06:16:16 - 00:06:47:14 Curtis But then that takes us to now I have to edit it. How do I edit it? I've captured all that footage. I'm a singer songwriter. I'm not a film editor. I don't understand sound bytes and all that stuff and what looks good and coloring and finding all that. And then so researching what are the best and most user friendly programs out there and asking questions and inquiring from other artists and reaching out to the community and your peers. 00:06:47:21 - 00:07:06:16 Curtis Well, what are you using? Well, how are you using that? I think the collective of everything, I still don't know what I'm doing, but yet I can make content and I now consider myself a very, very, very, very, very, very, very small amateur filmmaker as I can. But we're all filmmakers now. Let's be 00:07:06:16 - 00:07:07:02 Curtis honest. 00:07:07:02 - 00:07:30:00 Curtis Yeah. Where you spend time on an Instagram photo to edit it or a video or a story, you're going to edit it. There's a reel. Yeah, it takes a good 15 minutes to make a decent reel quickly and that that it's, you know, so we're all at our fingertips. I think businesses have also had to Facebook has now made it easier for us to make videos and reels and all that stuff. 00:07:30:00 - 00:07:47:01 Curtis It's all at our fingertips whether or not we choose to educate ourselves on how to use it. If you are an indie artist in this business, like I am working for it and putting up the content as an unsigned artist, et cetera, I would still do it if I was signed. But it's just, you know, you have to keep doing it. 00:07:49:17 - 00:08:06:03 Curtis And educating yourself has been the biggest thing for me. Yeah. Where can I go? Take this on. There's a lot of free online courses. Yeah. Your local library might have some courses that you can take. There might be some courses that you pay a couple of dollars to go do, and you're not looking for a certificate because you'll print it off. 00:08:06:03 - 00:08:13:22 Curtis And it really doesn't have a lot of clout. No, but you're smarter and you've now gained some information on how to market your product. 00:08:14:08 - 00:08:41:19 Jason People like Elvis, you know, did like a pile of movies right? That's sort of 100% direct connection between film and music, right? But musicians now aren't doing too much of that. There's still some there's like some that have like multi-talented artists that cross over between multiple artist art forms or whatever. Different mediums. Yeah. So actor, singer, dancer, all that but I think that there's less and less. 00:08:41:19 - 00:08:51:23 Jason And now it's like now the crossover is like trying to do social media stuff, like trying to get build an audience that way. Right? 00:08:51:23 - 00:09:10:16 Curtis So yeah, absolutely. For myself, I have learned that not every social media platform is going to be right for me. Yeah, I as much as I want to use Twitter, I'll, I'll spend more time trying to get to the top of the feed on a Twitter feed. Then I will trying to figure out what I'm going to say on Twitter. 00:09:10:19 - 00:09:35:08 Curtis Yeah. So there's always something different, but creating that content and going talking about film, for example, if we go back when making a music video, you've directed a couple of music videos of mine. We've had a film crew, we've had the larger cameras we've had all those things come into play, right? Being and, you know, as the indie artist and we couldn't really get together sort of thing. 00:09:35:08 - 00:09:53:09 Curtis And I haven't done this with my own cameras or cell phones but you see musicians making their own music videos with their just their iPhone or their Android, and then using the programs that you can down all these apps. Now you can edit. There's so much editing software, you just again, have to find out what's going to be best for you. 00:09:55:02 - 00:10:17:21 Curtis And then once you've create that content, knowing not just to put it up on social media and think that it's going to go it disappears within seconds after it's on social media, you have to be on it. Are you doing the paid advertisement or are you doing all of that? So you may have created this great marketing content and spent hours learning how to do it and everything like that. 00:10:17:21 - 00:10:33:09 Curtis But that's where it falls short on a lot of artists, is they don't put the money into it. Now pay the $25 ad, do all that but don't be worried about quality, in my opinion, right now. 00:10:34:00 - 00:10:34:06 Jason Yeah. 00:10:35:05 - 00:10:54:06 Curtis Because what you put out today and think that it may be good tomorrow, they'll be something new, it becomes obsolete. So there was that old rule of, you know, don't put out your content because everybody's going to see it. And then if it's not good enough, then you're not going to have the followers. You're not going to do this. 00:10:54:14 - 00:11:25:08 Curtis There are at least 60 to 100,000 new songs every day being distributed on Spotify, Apple Music, all these new platforms so why? Because they just want to get the content out. So don't worry about until you are moving into a direction of growth as an artist and you realize, well, OK, I'm not going to get this gig if I don't make a better promo video. 00:11:25:17 - 00:11:48:18 Curtis From the last one, which is why I'm kind of all over the place with this always video tape, never stop the camera from rolling, never behind the scenes on stage wherever because you can always edit that, and if you don't capture it, you'll kick yourself in the butt. So when it comes to quality stand in your bathtub and hold the phone out and sing a song. 00:11:49:11 - 00:12:09:01 Curtis Write a song right there and get it out. You'll probably get more followers that way because you did it in the bathroom. They're not going to buy your music. They're going to buy what color your shower curtain is and why it has dolphins on it. So don't you you'll never know what sells? That's the thing I've learned. And we again, we've made it accessible. 00:12:09:01 - 00:12:26:15 Curtis There's apps, there's all these programs. I'm not sponsored by this company, but I like Filmora. Mm hmm. It's such an easy program for me to use. And now I'm currently I again, Canva, I I now have the pro version, and I think it's fantastic. 00:12:26:15 - 00:12:29:17 Jason Yeah. It's a lifesaver for me, for sure. Absolutely. 00:12:29:17 - 00:12:49:15 Curtis I've done everything. That last marketing thing I did that was all done on Canva, right? You can. So there are resources and tools out there to help the artist for sure, but it's all changing. I'll create something today and tomorrow. I'll be able to do, like, a Spider-Man move, and now I can film that way. You know what I mean? 00:12:49:15 - 00:13:03:00 Curtis Who knows what's going to happen? You have to adapt and change and be willing to stay disciplined and consistent. Yep. And if you have discipline and consistency, you will create and you will get a result yep. 00:13:04:01 - 00:13:24:03 Jason Looking at the types of content you put out and what's getting the traction, are you what are you seeing comparing like a music video that we've put, you know, weeks into planning and then filming and editing and we put all this work in versus doing the Tortilla Slap challenge? Well, what gets the traction. 00:13:28:09 - 00:13:50:14 Curtis Nobody cares how many cameras you have. Nobody cares if there is a good sound guy. Nobody. Well, I know somebody that might, but nobody cares about color correction, any of that if I walked on stage in a bikini, I'd get a lot more questions asked than I would if I sounded good or played good. 00:13:50:21 - 00:13:51:05 Jason Right. 00:13:51:11 - 00:14:08:03 Curtis I don't know. The answer to the question. I don't know why a tortilla slap challenge has more views. I put up a video of my cat doing a belly dance, stretching him out I've had more views on that right then I have of me saying, Hey, listen to my music. 00:14:08:21 - 00:14:09:06 Jason Right? 00:14:10:13 - 00:14:29:15 Curtis People don't that's the connection. The the what is it that you are struggling with that I relate to? What is it that you like that I like I don't you know, I'm I don't know the answer to the question. Yeah. I just keep following the trend and see if I can keep up with it. 00:14:29:23 - 00:14:30:06 Jason Yeah. 00:14:30:15 - 00:14:37:11 Curtis I heard there's a new trend about the difference between playing piano with a pedal and not a pedal. I'm like, that's a trend on tech talk. 00:14:38:01 - 00:14:39:09 Jason People are paying attention to that. 00:14:39:09 - 00:15:04:11 Curtis People pay attention. What OK, so now I'm like, I got to make all these videos in order to tell the difference between This is what Mary had a little lamb sounds like with the pedal and what it sounds like without a paddle. I don't know what triggers people's minds onto the psychology behind it. Yeah, but if somebody has figured it out, I'm going to go. 00:15:04:11 - 00:15:15:08 Curtis I'm going to if I can't figure out something on my own, I'm going to well, they got it. I'm going to do less work and just follow suit. Right. But then you're like in the industry as an artist, are you just a follower? 00:15:16:17 - 00:15:17:02 Jason Well. 00:15:18:15 - 00:15:19:15 Curtis Part of me is. 00:15:19:21 - 00:15:32:09 Jason So who are some people that you're following and you're like, I like what they're doing. They're marketing, how they're getting themselves out there as an artist, who are some people that you're following and why? What are you seeing that you're like, I like what? I want to try to emulate that. 00:15:32:17 - 00:15:55:13 Curtis I see MDM recordings, MDM, MDM. The country record label that puts out their content, and I look at their quality of their content and I take note on that. It case in point, if you pay attention to the artists out there that are doing the work, all the work is done for. You have said that earlier. John Amaro is with MDM. 00:15:55:13 - 00:16:22:05 Curtis I look at Hailey Benedict, I get country artists, I look at country artist because that's the marketing is great. Country music sells. It's the demographic we're in. It's wonderful. So I'm not using that formula for that medium because it doesn't work for rock piano. But I can look at what a layout of they did for their consideration for an award company. 00:16:22:17 - 00:16:43:05 Curtis For your consideration, what does this poster look like? Why does that poster gather more views than the other one? Do that research, follow that artist and go, OK, I just watch something that artists can take note of, and I'm sure you may have seen it as an Instagram thing or something like that. Find a business that is prevalent and keeping their marketing going. 00:16:43:05 - 00:16:58:07 Curtis They've been around for 20 years and they have 1 million followers, but go look at how many likes they have. On the last marketing video that they've done, they've got maybe 60, right? Well, why is that? Because they haven't kept up and sustained that demographic throughout all those years. 00:16:58:12 - 00:16:58:22 Jason Right. 00:16:59:08 - 00:17:18:03 Curtis Right. Look at McDonald's. What have they done? They've gotten rid of the toys. They've gotten rid of that because the people that were their demographic 20 years ago are now have kids and they want to eat healthier. So McDonald's has gotten rid of toys and that will not rid of toys, but they've less focus on the toys, more focus on the apples. 00:17:18:03 - 00:17:33:02 Curtis And the orange juice. Right. Because the people that were buying the toys are now 30. Right now they have kids that want to stay healthy. So McDonald's has adapted with and has kept that 30 year old. They've kept me. 00:17:34:08 - 00:17:34:18 Jason There we go. 00:17:34:19 - 00:17:36:17 Curtis I downloaded the McDonald's app yesterday. 00:17:38:05 - 00:17:39:19 Jason Guilty, right? 00:17:40:01 - 00:17:45:08 Curtis It's working right. So find the artist that is got followers. 00:17:46:03 - 00:17:46:22 Jason And is keeping. 00:17:46:22 - 00:18:11:20 Curtis Up and is keeping up with those followers and you can tell by how many likes and comments and all of that engagement connection. So yes it is through film and through that medium and through marketing. And because film is evolving, the artist has to adapt and keep that education going. You're only as good as the last thing that you do in this industry. 00:18:12:22 - 00:18:39:19 Curtis And just when you think you figured it out, you're now you don't know what it is because something else has come in. Yeah, that I think is the disappointing part about art in today's age in 2022, we are creating so much art that we forget to respect and appreciate it we have no time to enjoy it, huh? 00:18:40:06 - 00:19:03:17 Curtis Yeah. So we put out a song. What's the next thing we put out the next song. Put another song, put another song for another song. Put on the next video, put out the next film, put out the next this whatever it is we're so pushed to create, we feel obligated to create because as we look at our surroundings and we end up in human nature comparing ourselves, we just do. 00:19:03:17 - 00:19:23:11 Curtis Even if we say we don't, we automatically compare ourselves. We look at what what other artist is doing and we think to ourselves, Why am I not doing that? Why can't I do that? What great. Acknowledge those thoughts, honor those thoughts, and say, Yeah, but now what can I'm different. I'm not a country example. I'm not a country artist. 00:19:23:21 - 00:19:48:18 Curtis This person is doing this, but I'm not them. So that initial comparison now I look at what can I use? What tools are they using, how are they marketing their videos? When are they marketing their videos have a schedule. That's another really big thing, scheduling out your marketing. When on Mondays I'm going to film Tuesdays, I'm going to edit Wednesdays, I'm going to release. 00:19:49:12 - 00:19:54:00 Curtis Mm hmm. Again, discipline, consistency. You will find results. 00:19:54:06 - 00:19:54:13 Jason Yeah. 00:19:54:21 - 00:20:17:06 Curtis And you have to keep doing it. Doesn't mean it has to be on all the same platforms. But don't forget about the art that you've already created. And reuse it. How many artists have put out all these videos on YouTube now? I've started to Tick Tock account and haven't put those videos from YouTube on Tick Tock right? So there's the connection, the crossover. 00:20:17:16 - 00:20:39:11 Curtis So there's your marketing, all of that. Yeah. So utilize the stuff you've put out. Don't just feel that you have to create, create, create, create, create, create and put it out just because you need to stick with the status quo. And you you feel obligated that you have to keep doing this. Now, don't lose the respect for the craft and what the art is. 00:20:39:21 - 00:21:06:04 Jason Yeah, cool. You got me thinking, as you said, go back to your catalog and kind of what where can you put this now? What, what changes? How can you re re put this stuff or repurpose and things like that? I actually just have this conversation a couple of days ago about one of my early projects and I said, Oh yeah, that thing never gained traction so I mean, that was dead in the water, but that was four years ago. 00:21:06:22 - 00:21:26:01 Jason It's nobody's seen it, so it's fresh. If I put it out again into a new places and new ways and a girlfriend was saying, Well, why don't you do tick tock, why don't you put it out on tick tock? I said, Well, how does it work? I mean, it would mean marketing wise, it works marketing at that that thing is just a crazy. 00:21:26:01 - 00:21:26:13 Curtis Yeah. 00:21:26:21 - 00:21:43:09 Jason That blow up anything. And I just realized it. Well, why why can't I go back into the things that. Yeah, it did. It didn't market, it didn't sell the first time, but totally it may sell today. And so same thing with music going back. 00:21:43:09 - 00:22:01:04 Curtis And yeah, I have projects that I've put out and I, I have myself haven't released them or put them, but there's a project that I was with a group of people we wrote a musical ten years ago. I think it's more prevalent now than it was ten years ago. 00:22:01:14 - 00:22:03:18 Jason You know what? I think that it would totally. 00:22:03:18 - 00:22:09:19 Curtis And it will be prevalent ten years from now. Yeah. Because the title is apropos to. 00:22:10:00 - 00:22:11:18 Jason It very much what I said. 00:22:12:07 - 00:22:13:16 Curtis I don't think there's I'm not going to say. 00:22:14:01 - 00:22:15:14 Jason We we could say it, but I. 00:22:15:14 - 00:22:16:16 Curtis Mean, but we're both. 00:22:16:20 - 00:22:18:10 Jason We're both very involved in that. Yeah. 00:22:18:12 - 00:22:27:05 Curtis But case in point, there is a product that you can't just. Yeah. Look at Broadway does it? Well, can you imagine if we just wrote the Music Man once and we never did a revival. 00:22:27:12 - 00:22:27:21 Jason Right? 00:22:28:02 - 00:22:49:02 Curtis There's always a revival yeah. Always a redoing of it. Yeah. Go back. That's another thing, too, you may have figured out, like, I want to re I want to redo the music video for Blue Dream. Oh, yeah. I've got so many more other ideas for it right now because there's new technology, right? There's new creative aspects, there's new things. 00:22:49:08 - 00:22:56:16 Jason So that's like, let's like, like, is that even two years ago, a year, a year and a half, maybe two years since Blue Dream go blue. 00:22:56:18 - 00:22:58:01 Curtis Two years, two years, two years. 00:22:58:04 - 00:23:03:22 Jason So about two years, ago. Yeah. And yeah, you're ready to revisit that, redo it, do something differently. 00:23:03:22 - 00:23:29:09 Curtis Absolutely. Because I know there's people that I've connected to now after those last two years who aren't seeing that, and if I redid it and turned it into a cartoon now a cartoon music video I'm going to reach a whole different demographic. So take your take your again. I want to rerecord all my music with video in a different way. 00:23:29:09 - 00:23:50:22 Curtis I want to do all the songs jazz, do them all this way, this way. Do it as a polka, do it as a rap song, do it as this. Why limit yourself with the mediums that you have and the resources you have with film, right? Is so many resources and it's endless possibilities. Yeah, I think with film to just say, That's it, that's done. 00:23:50:22 - 00:23:56:12 Curtis That's all I got. No, let's go. Let's. It's OK to regurgitate. 00:23:56:17 - 00:23:56:23 Jason Yeah. 00:23:57:13 - 00:23:59:11 Curtis It's OK to reuse. 00:24:00:10 - 00:24:40:04 Jason Definitely. So I'm thinking about how things have transitioned over the years, so you know, 40 years ago we're looking at people like Elvis and the way that he promoted himself. He did a lot of movies. That was where he built new audiences and created new things. Also doing the big stadium shows and records and all that. Then, you know, it started to transition into things like you know, different mediums like cassette tapes, eight track CDs, and then we hit Napster and stuff like that, where suddenly music was being pirated and sent out everywhere all the time. 00:24:40:04 - 00:24:53:06 Jason And men, musicians, record labels were scared. They were like, Oh my gosh, all of our money is going down the toilet. Because they could share our music and it just goes everywhere for free. We're so sunk. And then that became the norm. 00:24:53:06 - 00:25:08:06 Curtis Spotify I'm right. Yes, it is. And unfortunately, we are still throwing valuable equity down the drain by only offering peanuts. 00:25:09:01 - 00:25:09:09 Jason Yeah. 00:25:09:16 - 00:25:10:14 Curtis On the dollar. 00:25:11:04 - 00:25:11:11 Jason Yeah. 00:25:12:11 - 00:25:27:03 Curtis And I don't know the business model of Spotify or these streaming platforms. I don't know enough in order to say I agree or disagree just straight enough. 00:25:27:03 - 00:25:28:13 Jason Yeah, I don't have to get I. 00:25:28:14 - 00:25:40:22 Curtis Am so small on the grand scheme of things that I'm pretty sure that over the last two years I'm happy with the $60 I've made on CD Baby and Spotify and my dollar 13 annual return on. SOCAN. 00:25:41:19 - 00:25:42:04 Jason Right 00:25:42:09 - 00:26:25:22 Curtis I'm OK with that. I very much OK with that because I've put out work and I've got to return that's not to say that artists are not still doing concerts. Artists are not finding other avenues such as film collaborating with a beer company and making a beer, make up lines, clothing, all those things to make money. Because the evolution on that side, you know, the whole streaming thing really changed the face value of what music is pardon me. 00:26:25:22 - 00:26:51:05 Curtis And to some degree, I think that face value jaded and got into some artists who felt that their worth was no longer worthy their art was no longer worthy. And well, I'm going to put all this time in and we were saying earlier, I'm going to put all this time in, I'm only going to get $0.0004 so in order to make $25, I have to have 25,000 streams or whatever, you know, whatever the math is. 00:26:51:21 - 00:27:10:02 Curtis And some artists have just threw in the towel and say, I'm not going to do it. And a lot of bands have broken up. A lot of artists are now doing other things and doing a career. And I unfortunately have a handful of artists who have ended up having to go down that road because of life that a kid's got to pay the bills and all that stuff. 00:27:13:01 - 00:27:50:06 Curtis But if you can look past that and look at the value of art without a monetary number put to it and get through the turmoil and get through the headache and get through the sadness of looking at the numbers and focus on the creativity and the tools you have to keep promoting yourself through film and what it offers and connecting yourself to directors and cinematographers and companies and education. 00:27:50:20 - 00:28:11:14 Curtis You will be strong in your presence and you will get noticed as we as well. I mean, cream doesn't rise to the top in this industry. Money does. You have to dig for the cream in this industry. 00:28:14:15 - 00:28:20:09 Jason Yeah. So it's it's not necessarily the quality of work. It it's really, you know, who's. 00:28:20:17 - 00:28:31:14 Curtis And it's not necessarily quantity either. It's who's in it, who's dedicated. Yes. You know, quantity can be shoe in. Quality can really make a difference, too. 00:28:31:17 - 00:28:32:01 Jason Yeah. 00:28:33:14 - 00:29:03:04 Curtis But don't get so stuck inside as the artist being like, I put all this work in for what. Right. Well, you're in the wrong business if you're saying that. Yeah, if you want to create art, no matter what it is, a commercial, a movie, a music video, a jingle. If you are looking for a return on it financially, a remuneration of some sort on an hourly, it's not going to happen. 00:29:05:01 - 00:29:08:05 Curtis Remember to do the art because you have the ability to. 00:29:09:13 - 00:29:11:03 Jason Thank you. I needed to take that to heart. 00:29:13:02 - 00:29:29:02 Curtis I was perfect my own self as well because I get I get caught up on myself. I might because we do. We got bills to pay, rent to pay this to thing. OK, Jonathan, I need you to book me ten gigs next month so I can put money in our pockets and blah, blah, blah, right? It's just not. 00:29:29:10 - 00:29:53:21 Curtis What are you what are you doing? Are you creating your dream? Are you chasing it? And if you're following your dream, who's in front so don't get caught up or choose not to get caught up in the whole business side of it. And the return is not coming fast enough. I say that to myself every day. I'm like, what am I not playing in front of 40,000 people already, right? 00:29:54:05 - 00:30:08:20 Curtis It's because I haven't earned the right. I haven't earned that yet. I haven't done enough yet. I haven't done it. And if it means that it hasn't happened yet, that's OK. I look back at like, what has happened? Oh, I got that because I did this right. Oh, I see. That came at the right time because I did this. 00:30:10:06 - 00:30:13:21 Curtis Yeah. Yeah, it'll happen. Yeah, but don't chase it, create it. 00:30:14:16 - 00:30:45:20 Jason But looking towards the future I'm thinking there's there's technologies that are changing the way that we consume content. And are you going to be working towards those types of technologies? I'm thinking things like virtual reality, NFT's What are some other ways that we're going to start to see content distribute to different? But you can create or live streamed performances versus live performances or continuing to do live performances. 00:30:46:00 - 00:30:57:20 Jason What are some things that you're looking at towards the future as ways that artists might be able to take back their power or be able to build new audiences, find new places for sure. 00:30:57:20 - 00:31:17:13 Curtis I think those two mediums are going to be hand-in-hand with each other. As an artist standpoint, we cannot take away human connection, and there is nothing like going to a live show. You're right. We will always have a live show. There will always be a live show. What capacity it's in. I'm not sure what it looks like as the stadiums might be virtual, I don't know. 00:31:17:13 - 00:31:34:17 Curtis But there will be a live show and that that I don't know. For me, if I can't reach out and shake the hand of an audience member, I it's not you know, that's old school in me, but you have to want to adapt. You have to want to create, you have to want to connect to the people out there. 00:31:35:03 - 00:32:05:02 Curtis So to answer your question, I will always perform live. But yeah, I'm curious what the Meta world is going to look like. I'm curious to see putting on VR and or having my audience as a V, I don't know, am I? I don't know what the real virtual world looks like. What is the stage? Am I in a giant studio warehouse somewhere and all the audience is all sitting with Oculus VR or whatever and that sort of thing, and they're all tuning in and I'm. 00:32:05:15 - 00:32:34:17 Curtis Is it all the technology? Yeah, I'm willing to do it. I'm wanting to change because and adapt because my audience, I need an audience and an audience needs me that needs an artist. And that audience is the audience. Right? Whatever, whoever it may be, I can't because I want to because I'm an audience driven artist and entertaining wise, I feed off that energy. 00:32:35:01 - 00:32:45:06 Curtis So I know it was weird doing a live stream. And at the end on Facebook Live, you know, you have 56 people watching, but you can't hear them clapping. You just see hearts. 00:32:45:16 - 00:32:46:10 Jason Right? You just see. 00:32:46:10 - 00:33:12:21 Curtis Hearts going up. It's like, Oh, I know they like it because there's hearts, but that could be that one person just laying on that button, too. Sure. The gauging. How do you gauge that? How do you respond? That human interaction will never, ever go away. So yes, I'll adapt. But the kid that's born in 2030, OK, will grow up in the world of virtual reality. 00:33:13:11 - 00:33:35:05 Curtis I just believe that. Yeah, right we're already there but that the growing up they'll be more adapted to that virtual reality that when you say to them it'll almost be a lost art performing in front of a live audience because we want that connection. But we may, that generation may not have that kind of connection. So it's true and it's true. 00:33:35:05 - 00:34:00:17 Jason Very interesting to look at how how is technology going to change people and interactions with each other. Our interactions with and going back to the artists, the artists that we're interested in. It's one thing to click through social and, you know, yeah, see Curtis and his husband do the Tortilla Slap challenge versus actually being in the room and hanging out and, you know, sitting five feet away is you play piano. 00:34:00:20 - 00:34:31:22 Curtis Pretty soon we'll be doing the tortilla tortilla slap challenge virtually in I don't know what it's going to be, but I am willing to play and I'm willing to grow and look, as an artist, I'm, you know, according to society and our our age, how long we live according to statistics, I'm halfway through my life right here. So if that's the case and I want to live off live off of that statistic, I have two choices. 00:34:32:05 - 00:34:46:23 Curtis One, I can stress the heck out and I can try to race to the finish line and do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. Be stressed out. Maybe not do it. Maybe have one person show up, maybe have 50 million people. So who knows what it's going to be, right? Or I can live in the moment. 00:34:47:01 - 00:34:51:04 Curtis And enjoy what I'm doing. And don't forget about my connection with art. 00:34:55:18 - 00:35:04:19 Curtis The evolution of technology will change. But source creating art will never change. 00:35:05:18 - 00:35:33:18 Jason There's an artist in Japan that is completely virtual, not a human being. It's an age generated singer that generates artificially intelligent, generates like songs. And this is one of the hottest artists in Japan. I can't remember her name, Hatsune something or whatever. And like some of her songs are like in the top, top of the charts in Japan and stuff. 00:35:34:11 - 00:35:44:05 Jason But she's not real. She is 100% virtual performer. I think that's kind of that's a whole different thing. 00:35:44:20 - 00:35:53:14 Curtis Wow. I went to Lady Gaga concert and for 45 minutes was an opening act of a hologram just the same. 00:35:53:15 - 00:35:55:17 Jason And that was probably the one that. 00:35:55:21 - 00:36:20:11 Curtis Maybe I don't know Girl Gaga. I think you're great, but I don't know about that. 45 minutes was a long time for me. I would have been into my hologram. Sure. That's cool. That's neat. I'm happy they're doing that. And that's because we have that look, someone had to program that. Someone had to create that. So that's art in its own form. 00:36:20:14 - 00:36:48:10 Curtis Yeah, I give homage to that and that's great. As artists, if we sat here and worried about what the psychological damage is going to do, we would never create them because arts in the eye of the beholder, right? If I'm looking at a picture and I think that that picture is giving me a headache and the person standing next to me is looking at it going, That's the best thing I've ever seen I as the artist, I'm not going to sit there and go, I'm worried about who's going to think this is going to give them a headache. 00:36:48:16 - 00:36:53:23 Curtis Right or I'm going to be worrying about who's going to like this art for yourself. 00:36:54:03 - 00:36:56:11 Jason It should be. But we do we do do a little bit of. 00:36:56:11 - 00:36:57:00 Curtis What we do. 00:36:57:00 - 00:36:58:09 Jason But marketing in our. 00:36:58:09 - 00:36:59:15 Curtis 100% right? 00:36:59:21 - 00:37:02:04 Jason But if it's for ourselves, if it's like create. 00:37:02:04 - 00:37:28:07 Curtis And it touches somebody or it extends itself into whatever it may be, then art has done its job for both parties. It's up to society to decide how that art is going to be birthed and how it's going to develop over time. It's either going to be liked or it's not, or someone is going to take it and do a rendition of it, do a revival, turn it into a calypso song. 00:37:28:14 - 00:37:32:08 Curtis Put it into the metaverse, and now somebody else has done all the work for me. 00:37:34:11 - 00:37:57:08 Curtis Are you OK with that? Well, that's something you have to ask yourself. You put it out there for the world to see and TikTok allows you to use other people's stuff all the time. Right? And do duet thing, which I haven't figured out how to do. I'm still trying to figure out how cat videos get more than animals into things. 00:37:57:14 - 00:38:00:12 Curtis Find out what works and then latch onto it. 00:38:00:12 - 00:38:02:16 Jason Yeah. Do you have anything else that you want to add? 00:38:02:16 - 00:38:38:05 Curtis I would say work with each other work with each other in the moment. Learn, be open to receiving. Be willing to learn. If somebody knows something more than you zip your lips and open your ears and do not respond. Take the information in, lose your ego and process the information. Work together if you can develop something because this person knows more than this person on whatever topic it may be or a suggestion, go for it. 00:38:40:18 - 00:39:01:10 Curtis Be collaborative. And that's another thing too, if I may, just to go back. Yeah, well, this is we ended on that note or whatever collaborative. Find an artist to work with. Mm hmm. That's another thing that's really huge. Just found out today that I guess Elton John reached out to Britney Spears to do a collaboration on Tiny Dancer. 00:39:01:23 - 00:39:02:09 Jason Huh? 00:39:02:19 - 00:39:27:16 Curtis Interesting song that's already written. They're going to redo it. It's going to have a little bit of a pop beat to it. And we're going to market the heck out of it. It's going to have a new music video. It's going to do this. So there is a perfect example of something that was written many decades ago and is being repurposed with new light, new genre of music. Cold Cold Heart. 00:39:28:07 - 00:39:53:12 Curtis Dua Lipa and Elton John, right? There's old meets new to create this. Yeah, I could argue that that's because we needed to pay bills and we have to put a project out and we need to make money. That's an argumentative state, and that's OK too, because that's the industry. That's the business. What do you have? What resources do you have and what resources do you need to keep relevant? 00:39:53:16 - 00:40:10:18 Jason It's smart and I think, yeah, you're right. As filmmakers and musicians, we can definitely crossover, find places, find, make movies together. Right. You've you've done music and a few of my projects, you acted in one little, remember, we did that little cowboy thing. Oh, yeah. 00:40:11:14 - 00:40:18:16 Curtis I saw that picture the other day came on. I still think that's the best looking picture of me ever. And that's great. I use that picture to throw people off. 00:40:18:16 - 00:40:19:08 Jason Oh, my gosh. 00:40:19:10 - 00:40:20:09 Curtis It's a great photo. 00:40:21:03 - 00:40:25:20 Jason It is It's a great photo. Oh yes. 00:40:26:05 - 00:40:32:23 Curtis I actually admired and I admire I admire that photo because it looked really handsome in the photo. I look good in a cowboy hat. 00:40:34:15 - 00:41:08:00 Jason So definitely check out Curtis LaBelle at curtislabelle.com and check out some other episodes as we take the world of film and we look one frame forward as I reflect back on today's interview, there are certain themes that really inspire me and even though today's interview, our focus was going to be on how musicians are using film in order to build their careers and what they're doing with film as they move into the future. 00:41:08:10 - 00:41:42:08 Jason What I found most interesting, and I think will inspire most of us as filmmakers is the marketing piece. Right? How are how are musicians creating their projects? How are they building their audiences? How are they getting their their stuff out to audiences? And there was a few pieces that really caught my attention. And to start with the idea that it's art first as an artist, if you are creating from the heart, if you're excited about the project, you're moving forward and it's really inspiring. 00:41:42:13 - 00:42:14:12 Jason You're going to be able to continue pushing forward to complete that project. Next. When it comes to marketing as you're creating that piece, it's the collaborations that are going to also help to keep that project going, moving across the finish line and to help connect it to new audiences. So as we were talking to Curtis, he was he was talking about Sir Elton John working with Britney Spears on a collaboration and how that is going to help crossover two audiences. 00:42:14:17 - 00:43:01:01 Jason And when we look at film that usually takes the form of finding somebody name actor or a recognized director or somebody with some reputation to be a part of it, so that when you're out selling it, that you're selling that name, you're selling that person's reputation. I also look at the collaborations from a perspective of continuously seeking out new connections, speaking to different people at local film festivals and building my network of people that I want to work with, working with actors on stage, working with actors in other films are again locally gives me that wide breadth of possibilities when I'm looking at casting. 00:43:02:00 - 00:43:16:20 Jason So those collaborations are huge and even Curtis and myself have collaborated several times now. I have directed two of his music videos. Take a look at this music video that I directed with Curtis Labelle. 00:43:28:09 - 00:43:50:08 Curtis I don't look at you same way that you see all the heartless lies deep inside your eyes. The blows and show you say that stab my mind. all the same. I'm leaving you behind. 00:43:53:16 - 00:43:54:22 Curtis Take my hand and show me. 00:43:54:22 - 00:43:57:02 Curtis Where you want to play. 00:44:00:04 - 00:44:00:23 Curtis The drug inside. 00:44:00:23 - 00:44:10:05 Curtis My brain is losing game. Twist and turn the words you made me say. 00:44:13:05 - 00:44:16:20 Curtis You're just a pawn that standing in my shade. 00:44:19:13 - 00:44:43:05 Curtis I've let you go I've let you go. We're not feeling the same. I'm not your future and you know I'm not the one to blame. I've let you go I've let you go. We're not feeling the same. you're not my future. And you know I'm not playing your games. 00:44:46:05 - 00:44:48:20 Curtis Every time I look around the room, I see. 00:44:48:20 - 00:44:54:18 Curtis Your face. Making time to change my mind, 00:44:54:18 - 00:45:05:15 Curtis I'm not going to chase. Hearing things that I don't really want to know. Oh. 00:45:06:16 - 00:45:08:12 Curtis I walk away from you. My blood. 00:45:08:12 - 00:45:10:00 Curtis My soul, my show. 00:45:13:14 - 00:46:10:14 Curtis I've let you go. I've let you go. We're not feeling the same I'm not your future. And you know, I'm not the one to blame. I've let you go. I've let you go. We're not feeling the same, you're not my future and you know I'm not playing your games. I've let you go. I've let you go. 00:46:10:16 - 00:46:20:01 Curtis We're not feeling the same. I'm not your future. And you know I'm not the one to blame. 00:46:22:20 - 00:46:24:16 Curtis I've let you go, I've let you go. 00:46:24:16 - 00:46:25:16 Curtis we're not feeling. 00:46:25:16 - 00:46:37:08 Curtis The same. You're not my future. And you know I'm not playing your games. I 00:46:37:08 - 00:47:02:16 Curtis Don't look at you the same way that you see me all the heartless lies deep inside your eyes. Twist and turn the words you made me fade. You're just a pawn that's standin' in my shade. 00:47:10:23 - 00:47:46:08 Jason Other collaborations I have worked with him on other projects he did the signature music piece that was used in my first big self-produced project, THE BIN, a creepy lullaby sounding tune, which is actually a twisted version of Amazing Grace. And I asked him, Can you give me a version of Amazing Grace? That sounds kind of creepy. Sounds like it's on like a little like a mobile or a music box. 00:47:46:19 - 00:48:17:09 Jason And that create something. And so he created this piece. The other collaboration that comes straight to mind again with Curtis was on our Telus Storyhive short film project called Cheaters, Robbers and Outlaws. He did all the piano music in the background for a the piano player in the saloon he also did all of the orchestral pieces for the different musical themes that we hear throughout the second half of the film. 00:48:18:06 - 00:48:52:00 Jason Really helped to emphasize and bring impact to the different emotional states and different instruments as we go through that second half film. So I was really inspired and thankful to have his musical work in that piece. Even this project Frame Forward, looking at the the introduction music and music that I use and the credits in most episodes, that's music by Shiv Shanks, which was inspired during a film that shic starred in Cheaters Robbers, and Outlaws. 00:48:52:10 - 00:49:36:01 Jason He actually wrote and produced some songs from home while stuck at home during COVID based on being a part of a film. And I loved some of the musical pieces so much that I actually used one of them as the end credits scene in Cheetars, Robbers, Outlaws. I also have used a piece of it in Frame Forward right here as my intro sequence in my credit music so it's kind of fun to see how those collaborations that we make with musicians, with other filmmakers, with actors can all come together to bring us possibilities and new connections that we can use throughout our career and throughout different projects. 00:49:36:12 - 00:50:14:08 Jason The next piece is the connecting with our audiences, and that's when we look at marketing, marketing in films what we're doing traditionally right now, whether it's independent with mostly with the independent films, is we try to get them into film festivals, and it's like a lottery ticket. We spend, you know, hundreds of dollars doing entries, thousands of dollars doing entries to all these different film festivals, hoping that it'll get into the festival, hoping that a buyer will see it, hoping that they will say, We want to pay millions of dollars for your film. 00:50:14:18 - 00:50:59:04 Jason And that's the lottery ticket and we've sold it and we're doing great. Unfortunately, the vast majority of films don't have that result. Where can we put our movies out and market them? And I think the inspiration that Curtis said when he said live concerts, being able to be in the room with your audience is huge in film. We really right now, the main ways that we get ourselves out there is through some sort of advertising, whether it's paying for ads on social media, whether it's just trying to get word of mouth through social media, whether it is trying to do pre-sell our movie through something like an Indiegogo campaign to try and build an audience 00:50:59:04 - 00:51:28:07 Jason that way. And I think those are kind of the Indiegogo campaigns and things like that are good start what about going back to guerilla marketing tactics that they used in the fifties, sixties, seventies, where the filmmaker would actually take a copy of this film and travel from town to town and do some ticket presales in a town just kind of the way that, you know, when you see a circus come to town. 00:51:28:14 - 00:51:52:23 Jason And I know they still do this because the circus was just in Red Deer last week. And I remember going into a business and seeing that they had a little thing on the business counter, giving two for one tickets away, sit on the counter there and so that it's that going in marketing your movie, going into places where your target audience are. 00:51:53:05 - 00:52:10:08 Jason So if your movie is set in a grocery store and going grocery stores and saying, Hey, we've got this movie that's set in a grocery store, would you put your thing out? Or if it's set in a nightclub going to nightclubs and saying, Hey, can we promote our movie here? We're going to be playing it here next week. 00:52:10:11 - 00:52:31:23 Jason We could even use your club and have people come out to the club and pay, you know, 20 bucks to come see the movie. We'll give you five bucks from each ticket. You know, being able to do these kind of guerilla marketing strategies and and that can be a really cool way to be able to add to the business for a local business or a group of local businesses. 00:52:31:23 - 00:52:55:14 Jason And at the same time, market your film. And while you're doing that, you can be in the room with them. And then you've now you can get those audience members onto your social media. You can maybe get email addresses so that you can connect with them. When you make future films, begin to build that audience interaction with live in-person connections. 00:52:56:13 - 00:53:31:11 Jason Now you've got your film, you've gone and tried to market it. You've done the best you could and it flopped. Maybe you've got that film five years ago. Here is another interesting thing that Curtis mentioned that I think is really valuable. Going back into your catalog and revisiting those films, whether it's going through and actually doing a full reedit so you can do a new director's cut, use some new effects, use some new sound, clean things up better than you did your first time through with that film. 00:53:31:11 - 00:54:09:16 Jason You could definitely spend the time to do that, or even just taking the film as it is and doing a rerelease now for most of us who have done independent film, our earliest few projects didn't really hit somewhere along the way. They never really got off the ground but we went ahead and did the next project, the next project, the next project, and now we've got this catalog of I'm going to say failures and we think, man, we look back and we think, Look at all these failed projects, but think of it in a different way. 00:54:10:03 - 00:54:37:09 Jason Think of each of those as an asset that you have that that project cost you. How many hours of creative time, how many dollars, how much collaboration, how many people were involved in that? They all wanted to see it succeed. And they all would love to still see it succeed. Ten, 15 years later, they still want to see it succeed. 00:54:37:20 - 00:55:10:15 Jason Why not go back to some of those old projects so if you have let's say you've got an action movie and now you're looking to create a new action movie, totally different thing why not create a package? Right. So your new action movie, when you're out going to do your crowdfunding campaign why not? As you're crowdfunding, make one of the crowdfunding levels be that you will get a copy of this action movie from five, ten years ago. 00:55:10:18 - 00:55:32:20 Jason Right? It didn't work very well the first time, but now if it's given as a free bonus, you might be able to increase your crowdfunding levels by a certain amount. Why not right? Why not look at repurposing some of these pieces, maybe putting them on to different forms of social media right. What what are the newest social media tools that are out there? 00:55:32:20 - 00:55:54:21 Jason Can you put it out on these new mediums? Give it a try, see what happens. Some of you, it might take off and who knows, maybe it won't, but cutting pieces out of it, turning it into memes, you might be able to suddenly build some sort of a a new following for it, a new interest in it, and maybe you'll be able to get some new sales. 00:55:55:03 - 00:56:15:11 Jason It's worth looking at those old projects and seeing can you repurpose them, can you repackage them? Can you put together a series of films together as a package? Can you put them on to new platforms because maybe when you were first trying to sell it, you were really trying for that big theatrical release. You were really trying for that big broadcast deal. 00:56:15:17 - 00:56:43:02 Jason And when those fell through, you walked away from it. And now maybe there might be opportunities to add it into some smaller streamers. And you know what? Maybe you put it on a smaller streamer and you get a few thousand dollars. That might be all you need, right? That might be great. And now you've got a new place to be able to send audience members to those are some of the key elements that I really picked up on in talking to Curtis. 00:56:43:02 - 00:57:07:19 Jason Do the art for doing the art, collaborate build those connections, build your network, and be able to bring in new audiences with those collaborations, find ways to really connect to your audience. When you go to Comic-Con, who are you hoping to see? You're hoping to see some of the actors who are The Avengers. You see some of the actors that are in the latest sci fi movies and Star Wars and whatever right there. 00:57:07:22 - 00:57:34:09 Jason They're making face to face connections. So finding those face to face connections with your audience, where are your audience that? Are they in Reddit forums? Are they in Facebook groups? Go to those groups, join those groups, become a part of those groups, and then share your project with those audience members who might be of interest. Talk to the people who run those groups and say, Hey, do you mind if I share this thing? 00:57:34:09 - 00:57:59:19 Jason You know, it's a cool thing I want to share. And in many cases they'll say, Yeah, sure, great, make sure you get that permission. But that's a great spot to find your audience and connect and get those new sales and then being able to go back into your old catalog and revisit. So some amazing thoughts and amazing ideas and thank you so much to Curtis for being a part of today's episode. 00:58:00:00 - 00:58:19:21 Jason If you want to find out more about Frame Forward, go to Frame Forward Show.com where you can find all of our episodes. My name is Jason Steele and thank you again and join us on future episodes as we take a look at the world of film and we move one frame forward.